Vacuum packed frozen steaks: salt in advance or not?

Having been doing SV for a few years now with the Anova, rather than over analyzing or over thinking this I take my meat out of the freezer and if not yet knowing how long for that piece look at some recipes on the app and just double the time drop it in the bath and salt before the final caramelizing …works every time for me with racks of lamb and or steaks etc.

I have to ask again because I’m even more confused with the Baldwin’s charts vs the rest.

The Anova app says that for bone in steaks up to 900 grams it’s ok to cook them for 1 hour at the desired doneness temperature, but this is “misleading” (?) since they reason by weight and not by thickness. Kenji’s article says not to go past 4 hours maximum to avoid texture alterations.

Another sous vide app whose name starts with J (I don’t know if I can name it because it’s a competitor for Anova) goes further and allows you to specify the thickness of your steak and the maximum thickness (5 cm) gives you a 2 hours cooking time from fresh or 2.30 hours if frozen.

The Baldwin’s chart says that 3.30 hours for a 5 cm thickness (steak at 5C) and 5 hours and 15 minutes if the meat is frozen.

I know that you told me to follow Baldwin when in doubt but what’s with these huge differences?

I have a fresh 1 kg bone in ribeye (thickness 5.5 cm / 55 mm) and I’m cooking it at 58C for 4 hours following Baldwin’s chart.

EDIT: Baldwin in his chart assumes that the water bath is between 45C and 80C, does that mean that the times in the chart are based on the highest temperature? Of course it makes sense that the meat needs more time to reach 80C rather than 58C, but I don’t know how much less time it does need and no I’m not able to do the math calculations in the appendix.

Talco, remember Rule #1 and Rule #2.
You will only be confused when you go off course with vs the rest.

Right from the beginning here i had a generally low opinion of the Anova recipes. Although they have likely improved i wouldn’t waste my time investigating them again.

First, don’t mix frozen and chill SV cooking guidelines. And adding 30 minutes for frozen meat is inaccurate.

You are confused because you are considering two different sets of cooking instructions. Both are likely correct, but with different outcomes.

With the Joule information you only heat the meat to achieve thermal equilibrium. (maybe) While following Baldwin the meat is cooked longer at the set temperature to achieve increased tenderness and gelatinization. It’s your choice.

Rule #1 again.
Baldwin’s charts are accurate.
Pardon me, but you are wrong.
Don’t do the math calculations, they will give you a headache.

Think about what’s happening in the water bath. The hotter the water temperature the more energy it contains and the faster it diffuses trough the meat. Therefore, there’s actually little difference in time no matter the temperature.

Follow your plan and enjoy your steak.

Yep, but before settling down on Baldwin’s indications let me post this last link :thinking:

Here’s an information that caught my interest:

[quote=article]
I’ve adapted this chart from the huge tables in Modernist Cuisine.

The time depends on the thickness and the shape: slab (like a steak), cylinder (like a sausage) or sphere (like a ball or cube).

The times are starting from refrigerated meat. Frozen will take longer.

You may note that these times are shorter than in some other sources.

That is because Modernist Cuisine has calculated the time needed to reach a temperature of 1C/2F below the temperature of the water, rather than 0.5C/1F as some other sources, and I have used the heating times from refrigerator temperature to 60C/140F rather than 80C/175F.

Together that makes quite a difference.[/quote]

image

The times are more consistent with the Joule app and I was wondering if they’re based on a base too (a final temp inferior to the 80C the other sources used) but then again this raises another question: why the Joule app always say the same time from the lower temp to the maximum temp they allows you to choose? (50 to 68C - always 2 hours for 5 cm steak)

Talco, i would never dispute Nathan’s work.

For me, Baldwin’s work meets my needs and that’s what i share with other cooks because i’ve found it complete, dependable, relatively concise, and easy to understand. Approaching two decades later there’s bound to be more advanced work than Baldwin’s. Find it and use it at your pleasure.

I’m long past having much interest in intensive culinary research, most of which confirms what i already know and been practicing for longer than i want to reflect upon. I practice what works for me and share what i know as best i can. I encourage all others cooks to do the same.

Rules #1 and #2 are “- good enough for jazz” as Oscar Peterson frequently said, - and good enough this cat too.

I think i need to add a Rule #3 for you to answer your last question, - which you answered yourself.

Rule #3. Thickness is critical to SV cook time, - temperature doesn’t matter enough to really matter once you have selected your preferred degree of doneness.

Happy cooking.

Thank you Chatnoir for your help. :+1:t2:

Talco, my pleasure.

One last reminder. Two weeks ago i recommended you maintain a detailed written record of each SV cook. Doing that allows you to develop your personal SV formula for each of your menu items. Cook your way to please yourself.

Having your personal cooking journal will soon allow you to break away with confidence from the perplexities of the conflicting information you discover and rely on your own work.

Do the work and you will do well.