Goshin, if your bread’s crust softens after cooling it may not have been completely baked, or its hydration is too high.
I thought so myself as well. I lowered the amount of water to 340grs. Was stll getting a soft crust after cooldown. I think it’s because of the 100% steam. I’m going to try less steam next week to see what happens. I’m thinking of bringing it down to 60%.
After cooling the bread down I just put it in the oven again for 8 minutes at 180 Celsius. That crisps it nicely. I would rather not have to do this.
I’ve been baking bread for 3 months now and have watched numerous YouTube videos on the subject. Most use a sour dough starter.
As I’m baking bread for daily use this seems to be a tiresome process. Many rises, folding and hours or sometimes a day later you can eat your bread.
This bread I make every 2 days and is table ready within 2.5 hours.
I started with another oven and have been using the APO for about 3 weeks now. The results are much better than the old oven.
In general I would say the APO is a great product.
Furthermore I had never thought how intricate the baking of bread would turn out to be!
I live in the heart of Amsterdam and have bakeries
selling great bread all around me.
The price though was getting absurd so I started baking myself.
Keep experimenting ya all and I’m sure we will get to the perfect bread!
My thinking exactly! The sour dough is to much rest time, folding and waiting again.
Even without the nursing of the yeast itself.
Hey Goshin, i don’t think the steam level is the cause of your soft crust. You should not have to dry your bread with that second baking. Do you check the terminal internal temperature of your bread? It should be 95C to 98C, - higher is better, which indicates most of the moisture is out of the bread at that point. And don’t try to judge doneness by colour.
I understand your comment about the wonderful bread you have available to you. My daughter and grandchildren live in Haarlem. She doen’t bake bread ever. I understand the cost factor because i know how expensive the overhead costs are. Flour, yeast and water are minor costs of production.
Even with the premium flours you use a loaf couldn’t cost you more than half a Euro. And i also question the value of having to constantly manage a starter.
Here’s a secret, you can approximate sour dough bread by substituting 90ml mild flavoured lager beer plus 15ml white vinegar for some of the water in your formula. Try it, you may have to adjust the quantities to get the flavour you like best, but it comes close, particularly the aroma.
I also think you are rushing your bread, mostly in the first fermentation. Most flours need more time to completely absorb all the water required for fermentation. Is your dough wet and sticky?
Keep trying, and maintain a record of every batch of dough so you can replicate perfection once you achieve it.
Keep well.
I have read about adding lager beer before, but more as a rising agent, not for flavor. I kind of like the idea that I can make any recipe that I love, and add it to “tweak” the flavor. I’m not so sure that I’m a big fan of the idea of adding vinegar as well. It almost seems as though it became popular to bake sour dough bread when the quarantine for Covid 19 began here in the US. Everyone who baked it was home w more time to babysit a starter. Maybe it was because people wanted to branch out, add to their repertoire of baking skills.From what I understand, flour and other necessary needs to bake with were having limits on quantities that could be purchased, as it was becoming a rare commodity. Even bread itself was scarce! I have never had the desire to learn the ins and outs of making sour dough bread. I had merely wanted to learn about the food, which for various reasons, seemed to be sweeping the nation. It could by coincidence have coincided with the shutdown of the country! I’m not looking to replicate the flavor, as I don’t even care for it!
Hey Suz, most beer is Pasteurized and filtered to prevent it from adding to fermentation other than for its sugar content. If you want to give your multigrain loaves a flavour boost try adding a dark ale as part or all of the water.
You will discover you will expand your culinary horizons if you resist prejudging new ideas and experiences.
An indication of baking’s new popularity is that one major flour company ran out of bags last year.
I really like sourdough bread baking and I do some experimentation. One of my favorites uses a Pâte fermentée from sourdough discard and a little yeast. My starter is kept very small until just before I want to bake. I feed 5g of strong starter with 10g whole wheat or bread flour and 10g filtered water. When I plan on baking I will feed it more flour and water so I have enough for the recipe. If I am going somewhere I put it in the back of the refrigerator so it hibernates. For sharing or long term storage I have frozen and dried the starter. Rose (my starter) lives at the back on top of the refrigerator. The starter is named after Dr Who’s first companion.
Thanks for the tips chatnoir. I will try sour dough one day. I’m looking for a formula that is easy to produce and is workable for an everyday bread. Even with the fast method I am using now I think it’s still taking up a lot of time.It’s not so much the work. All steps are short. It’s more the time it takes between steps that keeps you needing to be around.
The mill where buy my flour has a recipe that requires 2 steps of fermentation for baguettes. Between the 2 are periods of 1 hour. I have tried this and brought the first time down t0 30 minutes with no change in the end result.
Made a new video using 60% steam. It also shows the whole process I’m using.
Watch it here: Anova Precision Oven 3rd video on bread - YouTube
The result on the rise in the oven was better than 100% steam.
I will make a bread this week with no steam in the first fase and with steam in the 2nd fase.
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Once again, I’m intrigued. Let us know how it turns out.
Will do…
Goshin, for an everyday bread that’s easy and requires little time you need to be around other than just before and during baking try the NYT recipe at the link above 6 days ago. It is undemanding, even forgiving, of your attention other than during actual baking.
It’s so easy that you can delegate most of the work to a 6-year old. Just don’t rush it.
I will make a bread this week with no steam in the first fase and with steam in the 2nd fase.
Why?
What is your purpose for reversing the steam phases?
Is it the result of 60% steam being an improvement over 100% steam so that 0% steam must be even better?
It appears that you compromise flavour for shortened times in fermentation. Flavour development requires time.
For those that do not bake much it is good to know that most of the artisan no knead bread recipes can be kept in the refrigerator for up to a week after the first prove phase. The flavor improves as time goes by and you may bake when your schedule permits. I often time mine so it is coming out of the oven shortly before I go to bed. By morning it is cooled and a perfect start to the day. Also remember to not cut your bread until it is cool; it goes stale faster and the crumb is not as good.
While I haven’t tried these techniques yet, these YouTube videos really changed my perspective on the effort required for sourdough (for the starter as well as the bread making):
Do you have a recipe that you can share in regards to having such a small amount of starter? One of the thing that turns me off to want to even consider getting one going is the fact that such a quantity needs to be made, thus more to be discarded. I like the idea of adding enough flour, etc to make your bread, rolls, etc. Dont you keep a small amount which you add to to continue to “grow” your starter? Yup, a small amount is what I am looking for!
I don’t bake with the small amount of starter. I use recipes with normal amounts of starter. I also keep a jar of discard in the refrigerator so I waste nothing. I make sourdough bread 2 or 3 times a week. On non baking days I keep 5g and the 20g small discard goes in the jar. Let’s say I want to bake on Wednesday; Monday afternoon I will feed my 25g using 1:2;2 ratio discarding nothing. This will give 125g of active starter for Tuesday. I then look at my recipe and add equal parts flour and water to give me just a little more than I need for the recipe so I have at least 5g to feed on Wednesday after I bake. There are many recipes for the discard. I often add it to artisan bread recipes for a tang. Once you get the hang of it there is nothing to it. If you need to take a break there are several options available. Sometimes I will add some flour and water to my discard and leave it out to revitalize it and use it for baking.
If you have any questions let me know.
One thing; there are many sites out there related to sourdough and starter. Based on the hardiness of starter I bet they all work. Key is finding one that fits you. Here is the person’s advice I followed and her use of small amounts. A lot depends upon how often you plan on baking and the number of loaves. When I started I printed her instructions and kept dated notes on the paper so I would not lose track of where I was. When I started mine took a few more days than her instructions to be ready for baking.
Today I used 2 cups of old starter discard in an artisan bread recipe. I make this recipe that is just over 3 pounds and keep it refrigerated for a week baking small loaves as I need them.
Nope. Did not work out beter. I think the 65% steam.in the first fase is beter. Als the Chrust wasn’t as brown as it was before.
Just made a bread in my Dutch oven. The oven was to small! The rise pushed the loaf to the top of the oven.
Conclusie:
1: the rise in a dutch oven is very good.
2: I need a bigger Dutch oven…
The bread looks fantastic.
Thanks for experimenting with steam timing and for proving the status quo.
Hey Goshin, nice looking loaf. Now wasn’t that easy? Of course you could also reduce the ingredients by 25% and still use your Dutch oven. If your an intelligent baker and weigh your ingredients it’s an easy task to adjust all the recipe’s weights.
Smaller loaves also results in your enjoyment of fresher bread more frequently.
Keep well.